I'm Done...

Sorry to hear this, Damaso. May the road rise to meet you and the wind be always at your back.

Oh man! I am so upset about this Damaso. I’ve always loved your posts and I send young students emerging in the field to join LS just so they could see your helpful postings! I never really commented before and regret doing so.

What a shame for this industry that a few of you idiots out there choose to whine, cry and bitch to people like Damaso so much that you force him to give up trying to help you. Jeezus.

Damaso. The world needs more people who put an effort in to help this community and less of those negative people who would rather complain that help. I, for one, will miss your postings. I’m so sorry that others can’t see that banging away a flippant reply filled with complaints hurts more than just a few. It’s now going to hurt the whole communal feeling of lightstalkers. Shame on them and good for you for standing up for yourself. I’ll miss ya, babe!

Dear Damaso:

Your objective of posting was to help those of them who would benefit than to look at the criticism from a minority group. Life cannot stop because a few individuals criticize. In every sphere of life, there are critics and commentators-good, bad, worst. You wouldn’t stop photographing because a few of them talk negatively. They are always the stepping stone to your greater success.

I am not sure how many members are there on lightstalkers. However, if only 10 or 20 comment, think of hundreds who have benefitted. By giving your bit, you have helped them get motivated and participate in a constructive manner. Please know that those who don’t send good comments are those who appreciate in the background and always remember your kindness. If everyone backsout becuase of few criticism that evolves in a public forum, the world would only be dominated by negative people! LS is different and there is no better forum anywhere in the world that has such active participation of the photographic community.

Think again and continue to help the larger community of Lightstalkers than give ears to negative criticism.

Thanks

Damaso, I hope you reconsider my brotha….

Although I wouldnt put any hope in idiots stopping their worthless commenting. But, comon man, we need ya, and who gives a shit about the idiots anyways?

They are everywhere in life, ignore em and they dissapear!

Peace my man, and thanks for all the help, especially for those like myself just getting out of University, new to this effed up business and trying to fight for any scraps we can get…

In a PJ world that is not only full of people trying to hoard all opportunities to themselves, but also torpedo the options of anybody seen as competition, you were a shining light blinding all those fools out of existence…

I hope you reconsider!

Peace

d,

the distinction you make between the few good people on one hand and the mass of squabbling idiots on the other is simply a representation of reality, or more precisely of the demographics one finds on the internet.

one wakes every morning in order to “bother” fighting against the tide of mediocrity in hope of finding those few good people. if you feel you have found some of them then count yourself lucky and understand that you have done well.

lightstalkers is too large to exist as an entirely functional community but its size makes it possible for small or larger subsets of its members to form communities. the idea that all the thousands of unverifiable members could exist in perfect harmony is rather far fetched.

as for myself, i often read your posts but as they didn’t pertain to myself as i live in canada and didn’t plan on moving to the u.s. i didn’t reply. i imagine there are people out there that took advantage of the information but perhaps didn’t give thanks. there seems to be a general fear of betrayal in the photography community in which people think others are trying to steal their jobs etcetera. the feeling adds animosity to any idea of a community. i was always impressed that you (and the others that do so) went out of your way to provide information when others were so protective. just yesterday someone posted a request for information about a job they had and said they would not disclose who the job was for in fear that others would try and steal it from beneath their feat. it seems something of an unbalanced relationship to ask people for leads and ideas and state that you will provide no insight yourself. yet many were happy to help, myself included as i have some naive belief in helping others.

these acts of kindness are done regardless of thanks or positive feedback, it’s all part of the struggle.

Damaso… I completely understand. I’ve made a similar decision, I was organizing a charity bike ride for a few years which everybody applauded, we were very successful and raised over $150K over a few short years.

This year it was just too much, and I asked for help. I got nothing. I made the really difficult decision to shut the ride down. I got, out of the 300 people involved in the ride, no more than a handful of emails…

It’s almost as if the TV spectator life has morphed into the Internet spectator life. Whether it is information overload, or just that so much comes to us with so little effort, I don’t know, but it’s almost impossible to get anything but blather for a response from anyone. To get someone to actually DO something, well, that’s just out of the question. And it seems like it’s progressively worse.

Coincidentally, a good friend of mine has just, within the month, shut down an email “blast” list he’d been doing for over 10 years, for the same reason. No response, no participation. I’ve had two Yahoo Groups, and am on about 3 others. Same story.

On the other side, since I have taken that energy and put it into my own career, amazing things have been finally falling together. At first I was pretty pissed off, after a while I let it go, and now I’m seeing it was the right decision – just a really tough one. None of what is happening now would have been possible if I’d been working on the ride…

I am not going to echo these sentiments that you should reconsider, however much I have valued your posts. On the contrary, we all do what we can, and at some point you have to move on. If it is time, then it is time.

My grandfather used to say, all you can really hope for is to leave this world in just a little better shape than you found it. You’ve done that and more…

Have a great time, work hard, and best wishes! We’ve all appreciated your work.

Damaso,

I am very sad to hear fellow Lsers have not behaved well, your posts have been very good and informative, I for one have got used to your mails, they were very informative especially for LSers from “developing” countries.
I wish you well, and you have been an angel in my eyes and will remain one. Bless you !

Thanks for all the replies.

I feel like LS is at a crossroads. It has become very popular and in that sense also successful. At the same time I think it has become much less interesting for those of us who are experienced photographers and long term users. I think the fact that the few comments I have received on some of my posts shows what the community is like: a lot of aspiring photojournalists who consume the information provided but contribute little.

So should LS become a more select community? One of the biggest problems I have is with Stupid Photographer. Though his/her posts are very informative and usually spot on, the fact that someone can contribute to this forum and we don’t know know who they are, how good they are or what experience they have is very disturbing.

Now of course this is one person but that same time there are a lot of people who just read or just make comments and I also find this to be a problem. A forum should be active. If the top 25 people who start posts left tomorrow what would LS be?

One solution might be to have moderators for comments or to actually have membership criteria. Most of the comments I have found annoying or offensive have been by people who are either marginal photographers or not even photographers. The pros on the site tend to make incisive and interesting comments.

In my opinion LS really needs to evolve. And I don’t know what I can do to help that. Clearly my posts over the last year haven’t helped this process. It is up to those who read and benefit from this site need to step up and make it a better place to spend time.

Good luck…

Damaso, I understand where you’re coming from. I expected the same from Lightstalkers, and it’s why I recommend it to friends and colleagues. But I see where you’re coming from, and I too, will be disappointed not to see your posts around here so much. I’m hitting the road for a six month road trip next month, and looking forward to time off the Internet life. More time to shoot, now there’s a worthy cause for our time.

Good luck with the shooting on your next trip, be safe and be successful. You have a lot of friends behind you here at Lightstalkers.
Blue.

Damaso you will surely be missed and your contribution to this forum will remain unmatched. I might not have posted a lot but LS but have always learned a lot by just being part of this wonderful community. We will try to bring it back to where it stood, and I encourage you to reconsider. Come back after a while, as a change is always good. Again I will not take this is as a farewell from your end. It was always interesting to read your posts though It did become annoying at one point when their were so many negative responses. We all hope for a better change, till then some of us have to stick around and be strong for the rest of our fellow photogs. Peace and hugs, and I wish you well. Thank You Damaso…

Damaso :))

listen, LS, like all big wily families, is filled with the entirety of things: good and helpful, uncommon and pedestrian, supportive and cynical, and as a member whose been here for more than 3 years, i totally understand your frustration (i think i’ve threated to resign 100 times ;)) ), but the truth is that it’s all part of the world…there was not real Idyllic LS (well maybe the 1st year Teru opened the doors) but amid all the stupid squalor and petty bickering, there’s lots of great stuff that has and continues to alight upon this community….shit, i’ve benefit too, and have tired to give back tirelessly, through comments and $$-donations (which i stopped in january until family finances are bowed up, then i’ll continue the donation train) and the photo projection project i created trying to showcase the work of photographers from around the world, all of whom I chose from LS and the friendships and support and all the rest…..

Teru created this madness as a way to support and enliven and that’s what it does…the world is filled with white noise and nonsense but that doesn’t mean the world is pitiful and empty…a thread to raise money for the 2 journalists killed in Georgia is just one example of the importance of this community, add to that the fund for Adjmal, Stephanie Sinclair’s Project Azra, Jack Price’s efforts, Youme’s stuff, Orphan Works bills, workshops, fixers, and on and on and on….

while it’s true i seldom initiate post anymore (but for the philosophical/drunken starts) ’cause i dont have the time, i still check in everyday…there is still not another place on the planet like this community…for good and ill, and this family is worth supporting…

your job opportunities/grant opportunities are invaluable!…and while none of them (unfortunately) have been upmyalley, i love reading them and enjoy their informative importance…it’s the well ring of joining that matters…

there is not one way to behave in this world, not one, but to embrace the entirety of all things, to laugh and to see things for what they are…

share with us, share in this world not because you feel embraced by the great posts and information you provide but share because you are helping people…that’s what matters…

the rest, just stupid dross…

Stupid PHotographer, incidentally, is (at least for me) a great addition. he’s stupidly smart and has lots and lots of great insights and shit, this place is great with him (even when sometimes he annoys people) because he is a character and he adds to the character of this community…listen, the photo world is so fucking bloated with pompous look-at-me types treating each other badly that i for one love people who are iconclasts and also have a sense of humour…and for me the value of someone has NOTHING to do at all with their photographic abilities, whether they are marginal or great photographers: i judge simply:

do they provide color and information and nutrition to this crazy community….or not…

i think the only members that I have ever objected to where those who felt they were superior to others or voiced atrocious beliefs (remember that Nazi/white supremacist from Virginia, or all the shit that Tyler received on his pic from Lebanon?)…but even that we must abide…

we are only as good a community as for those we allow to speak, all thinks, for it is that which makes us as people and as a community richer from the experience…

keep your posts coming…but if you desist, please let it be for the reason that you are too tired to spend time here (as what’s happened to me) because of other commitments and not because of the snide or argumentative responses…

your posts are important…and so too all the discussion that comes from them :))

cheers
bob

p.s.

I should add that i’ve actually made a list of your “position openings/grants” as a way to keep open the day Marina and i leave Toronto…so, see:

You’ve helped me too, and i am a photographer, a working one who never has enough bread in the backpocket, so while many might not comment under your posts, believe you me they are important and helpful..:)))

ok, gotta run…hang tough and dont forget humour: shit, it’s about all we have in this life :))

cheers
b

Well, let’s all try and make it interesting again. It’s certainly not quite what it used to be.

Damaso, I hope you’ll continue to stop by from time to time. You’ll be missed.

Damaso, don’t know you, but have seen your links and effort in passing, hey, why let those who live on the site posting negative remarks bug you; remember they are the ones with nothing better to do while we are out shooting pictures!

all the best,
james

Damaso,

You always made me wonder how the heck you got hold of all these incredible and tempting job offers. Guess now we’ll never know. Too bad because if we did I’m sure someone would post them here.

As for those who disturb you: “The toad’s drool slides on my iron armour” could be a usefull stance.

Good luck x the shooting.

Damaso, I´m relatively new to LS, and got to read one of the posts to which you refer. First, I thought your contributions were very generous and gave important dynamism to LS by telling people of the opportunities that were out there. That was very encouraging. Second, I know it took you a lot of time to make those posts, and, though I never went after any of them, I thank you for all the time and effort you put into them. Third, I applaud your return to shooting, and I think that you deserve and need some time for yourself to develop artistically, though I, too, will miss your important contributions. Finally, there are lots of assholes in the world, and each one of us has his or her own assholian traits that constantly need to be brought under heel. Some people are better at it than others. So, don´t take the bitter memories with you. Remember instead that your work was appreciated, even though many of us never replied directly to you, necessary, and beneficial to many. I hope you do wonderful things while shooting, check in, from time to time, and consider enriching us all once again with your posts when you return.
Diversity is the source of beauty. If your journeys bring you down this way, give us a heads up to buy you a beer.
Peace.

Your posts will be missed, Damaso. Good luck with your projects.

Yes, Damaso good luck with your projects, and thanks for the good job you had done till now with your posts.

“The toad’s drool slides on my iron armour”, “each one of us has his or her own assholian traits”,
"there is not one way to behave in this world, not one, but to embrace the entirety of all things, to laugh and to see things for what they are’

Some brilliant words of wisdom here on LS. Wish I could be as eloquent and/or funny. I’d just add “dont throw the baby out with the bathwater” Damaso. Most people here seem to appreciate your helpful posts-I certainly do. So please stay and don’t feel bitter about a bit of negative sniping or the fact that some LS’ers choose not to reveal their identity.

I forgot: Damaso you’re not done… You’re rare ;-)

I’ve been traveling for the last couple of months and haven’t been active at all here on LS, but I do check in and read regularly, and I am always impressed and grateful for Damaso’s posts. The feeling that LS is degenerating into whatever seems to be a common feeling, and I hope it’s something that can and will be reversed because I find this place to be just wonderful. Damaso: will very much miss your posts and advice but I hope the traveling and shooting go well because that’s what we here are all about, anyway, isn’t it?

Damaso, you’ve been one of the crucial vertebra supporting the backbone of Lightstalkers.

I think the responses here are evidence of how important and appreciated your posts had become.

Perhaps a break would be good for you but I really hope you’ll be back.

Good hunting.

Damaso, I hear you, and some months back I nearly posted a similar note. The summer has been busy with shooting for me and I haven’t had time to be around LS much, and certainly I haven’t been able to contribute in any significant way in the last few months. I’ve clocked a lot of hours in this community, trying to offer what I can, but everything has its season.. perhaps your break will lead you back here at the right time. peace, bro..

Dear Damaso

I am actually having kind a same feeling… We probably are in same karma (Thank you for the good karma by the way…).
I’m pretty sure that I wouldn’t get any response, remarks and kind words from colleagues even if I say I am done.
I see here people are just grateful what you have been sharing here.

Best always,

youme.

Damaso, I’m very sorry to hear that. In fairness, I thinking LS is still pretty low on bullshit/moaning/griping etc. compared to some other fora – but I’m equally saddened that you feel you’ve been hit with the brunt of it. I’ve made a point of reading many of your posts and listings – most of the jobs are not accessible to me as they are US-based, but it’s very interested to see what’s out there!

Damaso,
your contributions are greatly appreciated and, as you can see, you’d be sorely missed.
Take a break if you must but be sure to check back in. LS is a great place to hang out.
Be well,
J-F

Please reconsider, your posts are always the ones I go to first. I won’t say much more since the supportive posts here already say it so much better than I could.

Take a break if you need it but please don’t go away.

I always appreciated the effort you put into your posts, and clearly I’m not alone. I hope you stay; this used to be an amazingly helpful and supportive community (and to a lesser extent, still is) and I really wish we could get back to that magic combination of intelligent debate and fact-sharing that LS has been all about.

I’m very thankful for your many helpful posts. I appreciate the energy you put into helping out. I’m more the type to just occasionally respond to a “anyone know a good fixer in ____” kind of guy. Thanks for your great posts.

Damaso:

As a lot of people before me, I think that you contribution over the times is invaluable. The opportunities that you regularly post here are of a great value for everyone, so please keep them coming and don’t mind the pour people that can’t (or don’t want to) understand the way Lighstalkers works…

Many cheers to all, and specially to you Damaso,

Armando

Damaso,

I will add my name to the list of people who think you not posting will be a loss to LS. But, you gotta do what you gotta do. Just please do it for the right reasons like Bob said earlier. Only you know what they are.

Also, Stupid may be a pain at times but his suggestion of reading the book Darkroom was great…you also said he is spot on.

I have only met a couple of people out there so you all could be the same person…who knows. Just do what you gotta do.

Tom

Oh yeah, I forgot to say thanks for all you have done because I read just about everyone you post, and I have not said thanks before.

So I had a few beers, watched a funny movie with my GF and had a walk down by the East River here in NYC! And of course thought about LS and this thread…

I feel like my original post is still very valid but I appreciate the emails, PMs and responses I have received. It is good to know that people care about the health of the site and this community as much as I do.

For me, this thread here: http://www.lightstalkers.org/call-for-women-photographers-juried-by-roy-decarava is part of what started me down this road.

It is full of snide, ugly, uniformed and just plain silly comments.

Teru was nice enough to post an opportunity for female photographers and look at the response he got! Now while this is not fully indicative of threads on LS these sorts of comments are not rare enough either. Someone will post a snide or offensive response and then say “I didn’t mean to offend anyone!”
If I want dumb opinions I go down to my local bar (at least then I have alcohol to balance things out). Here I expect a higher level of quality. Maybe that is unfair or unrealistic but I don’t think so, after all it was like that when I first joined and for a long time thereafter.

Honestly I think that all of us who benefit from the site need to take ownership of it. We need to not just have common sense (if you don’t have something positive to say…) but we need to give back.

The reason I started posting so many jobs and fellowships is that because when I needed advice or help LS was there. I just felt that I shouldn’t take but give and be active about it. This was just my way of doing so. Other people could and do and should continue to post interesting articles, events and topics for discussion.

LS should not just be “look at what I got published or what I won or how does this scanner work?” although that is part of the reason why we are all here. We need to be thoughtful about what we post and always be thinking about how it impacts (and hopefully benefits) our community members. Clearly this is a bit unrealistic but hey, aren’t we all in this to change the way people see the world? I know I am…

Again, I think some of the problems we face are structural. We have a lot of members who take but don’t give. We have a lot of “dead weight” however you define it. I believe either there should be some basis for membership (portfolio submission, dues, or whatever guidelines we can somewhat agree on that aren’t too restrictive) or we should have moderators. Since there are already many people who clearly devote a fair amount of time to the site this could be a way of giving back. But at this point in this incarnation LS is too unwieldy: anyone with an email addy and a smart mouth can join and say what they want and honestly I don’t want to hear it.

Part of what pissed me off so much is that I took the time to give back and all some people seem to feel they needed to say was something stupid or offensive. Now maybe they didn’t “mean” to do so but why aren’t we being more thoughtful about what we post in the first place? Looking at the posts over the past year there are fewer and fewer from people I respect and whose opinions are well thought out and interesting.

There are a lot of comments from people who just want to shoot off their mouths.

In the last three months I can’t think of more than two or three posts I even cared to respond to and I check the site a few times a day when I can. That should tell you something.
My challenge to all of you who care is: step it up. Make this forum a better place Treat each other with respect and show us you care by actively contributing however you see fit.

While I won’t be posting that much (I doubt I will totally be able to resist the urge) I will be reading and watching. If things improve I will post and reply to posts. If it doesn’t I will be reading and be a bit sad.

There are a lot of good people here but you can’t just sit by. I feel like I’ve done my share for a bit, now it’s your turn…

oh! so sorry you have GF already

Dear Damaso,

What a pity! Sorry to see you go and thank you for your tireless, valuable contribution to date. You have been a great source of information and a generous, positive presence.

Best wishes,

Sherri Dougherty,

I have some suggestions:

-Set up a more formal place for people to post all the great stuff Damaso has been putting together. I noticed the “resources” area, but I’m thinking more like a header link. Is there one I’m missing?

-Include on that page some advice about how to find this stuff. Damaso, I for one am amazed at what you were able to dig up. I’d even consider doing what I can to step up, but I have no idea where you find all these notices. I’d love to know, and if it’s on a page, I think it would encourage people to do what they can, when they can.

-Ban “anonymous” members. I’m not picking on “SP”, but one of the serious problems with groups like this is the ability for anyone to say anything without the responsibility of ownership. If you believe in what you’re saying, be an adult (sorry, really want to say, be a MAN), and stand behind it.

With any effort you could find where I live and work. You can find phone numbers. I keep that in mind every single, blessed time I post, whenever and wherever I post. I had a remarkable old man living next door when I was growing up, from whom I learned a lot. He lived in the same small community all his life. He told me once, that if there was a knock on the door, at any time of the day or night, he was never afraid to go answer it because he tried to treat people, ALL people, with respect, dignity, and professionalism.

-I, for one, (and I know I’m projecting here… see my post above) would like to hear a lot less of “gee this is terrible and what you did is wonderful” and a lot more of “How can I step in and help contribute?”

You really think what D. did was great? Spare him the sentiment. Put your money where your mouth is and sacrifice a little of your own precious time for the community, by pitching in where you can.

I’m not saying this to vent my spleen, I’m saying this for the simple reason that, for me, in my experience, an email or post from someone thanking me means very little weighed against the hours I spent (on my charity ride). What really means something is when someone values it so much that they are willing to try to step in and do something… anything. I’m not saying I know D. feels this way, but I do think I know what it would mean to him to have this blossom into a great, big resource, rather than just fade away…

Otherwise, well, it’s just so much noise.

No need to ban anyone. Just checked in from the road and get the message. Loud and clear!!!

Soon as I finish this stupid post I’m done & gone, not coming back.

As to who I am? Who cares!? Been paid for stupid photography since 1974. Had my stupid stuff published in dozens of books, in every major paper and magazine in the US, and many around the globe. My stupid prints are in private, corporate and government collections. Taught photography, for years. This year is shaping up to be my best ever, income wise. Woohoo for me, you go, girl!!! {flag moment, better kiss the medal or nobody except me gets paid!}

So what!? Means nothing, changes nothing, HERE.

That’s why my name and past are none of your business. Only my stupid thoughts and contributions matter, HERE. Always strove to give LS much more than I ever took from it.

Parting thought: pay attention to WHAT IS BEING SAID, instead of the tricked out name tag of the person whose lips are moving. Simply put, don’t judge a book by its stupid cover.

If you feel you absolutely must put your smart name on a post arguing with what I just said here, go for it! But don’t expect me to come back here to read it, or to respond to it.

Have a question or comment for SP? From now on, post it on my stupid blog, as I will not be checking back in here, even for private messages.

Stupid afterthought. How hard do you think it would be for me to take your name and plaster garbage all over the known Universe with it? Easy, stupidly easy, or moronically easy? One guess. Stupid names on the web. Please.

Adios.

one more thought…

One of the lessons I learned was that, to form a true community effort, you need to have investment by the members (participants), and that had to come from the structure of the organization. I started my ride, and it was kind of by necessity that there was nobody else really driving the effort. This was my tragic flaw… and when it got to be too much for me, there was no-one there to step in. When I start the effort to give it it’s “rebirth”, I will start by forming a board of directors, a group of people who are just as involved and committed as I am.

As long as you have the atmosphere that LightStalkers is a group you can join, lurk, make some noise and go away at will, you don’t have a true community. Give members the opportunity to invest, to “drive”, and you start to build something other than a spectator event.

You’re a lot less likely to bitch about the meal when you’ve helped in the kitchen.

That said, I have no idea how that would work within the current LS structure… (which may, actually, be part of the problem… the members not having access to the process?)

wow, this is your first post (of many valuable contributions) that I truly feel IS stupid. Don’t go away, take some responsibility.

However you feel the need to protect whatever, it’s not about who’s business is what. It’s about understanding the point of view of the author. It is impossible to separate what is being said, from the context of who is saying it. Point of view. It’s what makes a photograph, remember?

I for one hope that Stoop (SP) reconsiders just as Damasao does…i dont get why other photographers dont understand the importance (and the iconoclastic brilliance) of Stupid PHotographer…and he doesnt have to prove to me his worth or credentials (although, im happy others now see)…he and i have “argued” over the anonymity bit, but i also recognize too that from time to time this kind of persona is important…having used my name, i’ve been snake bit too often too in the last 3 years (my big mouth), but well…

let’s hope Snoop catches some big Sturgeon and feels relaxed enough to return

running
bob

you are suggesting that by knowing someone’s name you would understand them a lot better? two meaningless words would provide more insight into them as a person then months of comment and contribution.

did any of you ever get to know people you once didn’t know, a stupid question but worth considering. you hung out with them, got to know them through stories and conversations and at some point they gave you a name to call them. did your opinion suddenly change because of the name? its doubtful. the name was just something to associate to in your memory, a way to contact them later. if you really liked them but then discovered that they were someone famous or someone not famous would you really change how you thought of them?

it makes no difference to me whether sp is a fifty year old “professional” shooter or a twenty year old kid with really good research skills, he (an assumption) has given a lot to lightstalkers and should be respected in the “community” for it.

thats the beauty and i imagine part of the point of lightstalkers, there is no seniority, no post counter or blatant advertisement of how long someone has been on (i know its on your member page but not on every post like many forums). there is no space for group politics as no member has power over others, one is free to express themselves without fear of reprisals and anyone can join! members of both the older and newer generations can join and bang their heads together to come to a better understanding of reality.

if you think paid for and moderated would really solve the problems of the internet go look at sportsshooter and behold the fighting and bickering. lightstalkers allows each user to moderate themselves, you can block offending users and add ones you like to your network and only receive posts from them. there is no forced payment (although we are all encouraged to donate) as payment would keep many members away.

also, something that is often discussed

“Lightstalkers is a network of unconventional travelers. The core of our membership is made up of photographers, but we count journalists, aid workers, military and security professionals, and information techs among our community as well. We also have an extended crew of editors, agents, friends and family, and the odd people we meet at airports and rest stops, people who wonder where we are and what we’re doing out there. Lightstalkers is open to anyone who wants to participate. We have no membership requirements, only a code of sharing and cooperation.”

i.e you don’t actually have to take photos to contribute, just contribute.

All good points, and very much to the point of what LS is and where it should go.

I do feel it’s important to know the context, in age and experience, of an opinion. An opinion on copyright, for example, is a much different read if from a aged pro rather than a young student… just one example.

I also need to understand a person’s commitment to their opinions, to judge their value for myself. It’s generally referred to as “the courage of your convictions”.

I don’t really feel that a paid and moderated group is the solution either… I’ve shared your experience on that.

ted,

was not responding to you directly (in relation to a need for moderation etcetera), just thinking out loud about the situation and the many comments made.

but as i am now directly addresses you,

if an argument makes sense then i fail to see why the age or time they have been doing something should matter.

there are smart people whom have been doing x for a short period of time and stupid people whom have been doing it a long time, obviously the reverse is true.

instead one can judge “courage of conviction” by how they stand by their argument, by their contribution to the group and by their willingness to learn and discuss.

ok ok. had to pull the duck, did you? LOL

Damn, what is happening to LS lately… Very sad. Nobody should be leaving, shut up or whatever. No wonder there is war all over the damn world. People just can’t get along anymore :-(

I think Stupid makes some interesting points (and I ditto Ted’s comments above).

Knowing someone’s name, and more importantly their work IS important, at least to me. Often the stupid comments (not form Stupid Photographer ironically) are from people who either don’t have any info on the site or links to their work or are not very good photographers.

Those two stupid words make a difference. Anonymity allows you to say whatever you want without taking responsibility for it as some have already pointed out. I am willing to stand by every post or at least own up to the dumb ones. You know who I am and I really think that my work backs up to my claims of experience and shows people, far better than anything I write, who I am and what I believe.

When I don’t have that information I take what people say far less seriously, even if they say interesting things like Stupid Photographer. I am not alone in that feeling.

All that said I am not going away, just stepping back

One of the reasons I stopped posting replies and just concentrated on posting jobs etc. is that I didn’t enjoy the downward spiral in the quality of comments. That evolved into not bothering to even read most of the posts because they were either repetitive (how many different threads do we have going on the understandably important orphan works bill?) or self absorbed. I just put my head down and contributed what I could…

But things didn’t improve and I realized that I was enabling the problem not solving it. I though people would see what I do and it would inspire them to give back. Instead, with some notable exceptions, people saw someone was doing something good and felt that they didn’t have to.

So here is our chance. If we want LS to be more of a community then all of us who use the site have to make it so instead of depending on the few who already do.

At this point I refuse to give anymore until I see that there are people who not just benefit from what I post but who are interested in giving whatever they can to the forum as well.

It just doesn’t make sense for me to do otherwise…

One nagging observation about community and anonymity.

Anonymous members of a group like this have full access to information and identities of most other posting members of the group. As such, it’s a “I can see you but you can’t see me” relationship. It’s about control, not about membership or “citizenship” in a community.

And I do get some of the points above, but the notion that SP floats that a working photographer can build a career without having their name out there for all to see (to justify his anonymity) is just ludicrous. Older, established photogs MAY be able to pull it off, but if a young photographer tried to build a career in this business without having a website with name and contact info, they’d be doomed from the start.

I think that the problem with a non moderated forum is that everybody can say whatever they want without restraint (is that the correct way of saying it?). I think that you need a certain amount of control when it comes to a forum. there will always be people that f*ck things up for the rest of us. It would be a shame if insightful posters like Damasco and Stupid quit because of a small minority.
Now, I’m not really someone that makes a large contribution (I’m not a great photoq like D and S, hell I’m not even making a living with it so there’s a line) but I find it a bit of a shame that we as a community are focusing on the negative aspects instead of the positive. I have had some great advice over the short time that I was here and even drank a cold beer with a great photoq and read some great stuff and seen some great pictures.

So.. I dunno but lets just go on like we did, please???!

Damaso,

I’m by no means a frequent visitor to LS, but the times I’ve browsed the forum, your postings were always appreciated as it provided something that’s missing on LS.

It’s unfortunate that the few bad apples had to spoil the bunch for the rest. I hope they know who they are and the damage they’ve caused to the community.

hey there,
Just wanted let you know this wannabe has appreciated your efforts.
I’ve applied to jobs you have posted and have appreciated very much the encouraging sentiment. I lurk around LS attempting to clue in, and skipping the blather. Your words have been a source of insipration. Life goes on…Hope we don’t lose you for good.
Thank You for everything and wishing you well.
-M

This was in the LS Alerts, and speaks very clearly to many of the issues raised here:

Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations

Clay Shirky discussed his new book, Here Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations.

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive/events/2008/02/shirky